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client issue, if you bridge it to the fediverse properly like I did, you get a way better experience

It was waaaaaaay worse! 🤣

I was a Bitcoin maxi until I overdosed on Bitcoin maximalism on here and was like, Yo, they too far gone. I need to min-maxing this.

the number is the destination. $1MIL AaoMzjRfwnJai8q1V2K5m7BnHTU8GWX5iVA5xMoNpump

No need. Good morning and welcome to TheForest 🌲 .

Some people are trying to solve it at least, by allowing pockets of non-Bitcoin stuff to form around other relays or profiles:

https://nostrbrasil.netlify.app/ is almost a good example, ironically.

I have a little hope people will figure it out. It couldn’t be more obvious how nostr has catered to the maxis, and that has led to this very obvious stunted place it’s become. Plus the worst of the maxipads like @npub1...am8y8 being shown to be total frauds helps expose the maxi cultural rot. From my view, it’s more obvious than ever how blatantly foolish toxic maxis look these days.

Getting PR’s like this merged I think is a decent progress marker for a potential cultural shift: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/2119

Nostr as bitcointwitter2 is the most glaringly obvious, and most talked about problem from people leaving and just generally but also sadly the least grappled with. I think it’s a mixture of people wanting bitcointwitter2 and people not sure how to tackle such a huge problem.

It’s actually much easier to say nostr’s biggest problem is onboarding or UI or something else. When it’s clearly not.

But how do you solve such a huge cultural problem?

The best you can hope for is something like nostr -as -protocols eg bitchat, which seems to be used be all sorts of people who are never even heard of nostr.

Noste-as-microblogging is a lost cause. And I say this now, this is probably the least bitcointwitter2 it’s been here and it is still unbearable to anyone outside of the bitcointwitter bubble. It used to be way way way worse (can you even imagine lol).

OK I just sent a year’s worth for the premium. I’ll DM you the proof.

Here is another one that accepts Monero: wss://nostr.xmr.rocks/

I’m on there. 😊

It’s also, only for DMs

You can read from all of those inboxes, but only write to nostr21.

Theforest is mine, and I take Monero. Just have to @ me after hitting my payment target with at least as much as a basic subscription. Then I whitelist you.
Basic/premium is irrelevant. I’m just accepting donations, at this point.

Yah, @fiatjaf and @utxo the webmaster 🧑‍💻🍁 sponsored it for another year or so.. By paying for its usage from before. It will not last forever without sponsorships. But tldr, yes for now.

@cloud fodder right?

auth is free to use

Outboxes:

• Did you pay for a wss://nostr.wine subscription? If not, drop the wine.
• Add wss://nostr21.com, as you seem to be writing to that one.

Change the inboxes to:

• wss://nostr.wine
• wss://nostr.land
• wss://theforest.nostr1.com
• wss://nostr21.com

Change DM inbox relay to:

• wss://auth.nostr1.com

And then see if the signal is higher, when you look at global. That’s at least a start.

https://npub1w2rfg6swqzjgv84h23lwp2vdga4w90wntxejmf4zfhrwl0kuzqpqvc7tte.blossom.band/c1c61ea85f2aca790542961b0d0d1b306275aba6c86b126347a9175da4f2d2e9.jpg

Can you give me a screenshot of your relay settings? I think something might be off.

https://jumble.imwald.eu/spells?spell=followPacks

Here.

I think they meant follow packs, not follow lists. https://following.space/

Oh, @naruto that would be wonderful! 🤩

Thank you.

See, @naruto? It’s merged.

Now please bring in some Nitter people.

Instead of hosting scraped X content on a Nitter website that can be subpoenaed tell them to mirror X accounts into Nostr profiles and publish threads here, then people can follow the discussion as native Nostr threads in any client. It will be great.

This one:

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/2119

I didn’t want to harm Monero, I wanted it to stop existing, it is very different.

But really, didn’t you realize it was a joke? Do you think Spiral would have given me money for that purpose, or that I would know what to do with it? If I remember correctly I was actually attacking Spiral’s poor choice of grants at the time, and implying that even throwing money at an attack on Monero would do more for Bitcoin than what they were doing (I had to pick a proposal close to reasonable for the joke to work, of course, and attacking Monero made for great fun at the time). I actually feel somewhat similar about Nostr OpenSats grants now, and I’m in the committee!

I just think it’s funny that you come here supposedly to talk about the relationship between Nostr and Bitcoin but you accuse only me, even though I am agreeing with you (quite unexpectedly for you, I believe) and you condemn me for using the word “shitcoin” that many people apply to themselves happily.

Something is telling me that you are just still very angry because of that plot for attacking Monero 5 years ago. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I understand my jokes don’t land very often, and discerning when I’m speaking truth from irony can be confusing even for myself.

What NIP is that? Who implements it? I thought it was the “payto” thing, but I see now the NIP for an event kind with a list of targets, is that the one you’re talking about?

Let’s put that in the NIPs repository, it is only fair.

That’s why payment targets are better. Not crypto-related.

They implemented it quite quickly, which I am grateful for. Maybe I’ll send @VitorPamplona a PR for something more intuitive.

I live for the XMR tips, fr. I also feel so virtuous tipping other people in XMR. Do unto others… 😇

Thank you, my brother.

Ditto also supports payment targets, yes.

Hey, I’m a shitcoiner now too, as I support eCash over Bitcoin, that’s no big deal. Or Bitcoin is the shitcoin now, I don’t know. I just believe that everybody should unite in support for one coin only, and Bitcoin was the preferred target for that for a long time, and I don’t believe Monero can be it because it can’t scale to billions of users. My comments about Monero in the past, if you remember that so well, reflect this attitude only: I never wanted to harm Monero per se, I just wanted all the Monero people to join the Bitcoin team.

Anyway, I thought the discussion was about welcoming non-crypto people, but it looks like you’re just angry about the lack of support for Monero.

I don’t know enough about Monero and didn’t pay enough attention to the “payto” discussion. Maybe I should? I also paid zero attention to the NWC stuff and never implemented any of it, I always thought it was kinda boring, somewhat stupid. Zaps I’ve never really liked either, bolt12 is even worse. But I understand that it may be offputting to shitcoiners to see all those Bitcoin-related NIPs. It’s hard to avoid that with all the Bitcoiners around, but people don’t require a NIP to implement things.

I worry much more about the adoption that could have come from people who despise all cryptocoins though, like most of Nitter users, probably.

I was just now about to send you a Monero tip, but I can’t find your wallet address either on Jumble/Imwald or on Amethyst.

Thank you. Just sent you a small XMR tip.

I’m just on here a lot, posting and using my apps to help manually software test the apps my project is building and prototype new workflows and algorithms. It’s no longer fitting for the age to just send the devs mockups and wireframes. Or sloppy PRs. They write most of the production code. I just prototype and PR bug fixes and stuff.

Devs want to physically move around in the proposed design and analyze the network flows and APIs and etc. Time the rendering. I run a lot of the relay prototypes and other servers on my test server. Then we tweak and tweak and retweak and then add the final form to our actual project. Or delete the feature because it turned out to be stupid.

I didn’t originally market the apps, as I built them for our own use, but people kept asking me about them and they’re actually not that bad. Extremely powerful. Can render and write any event kind, for instance, because I built them to be open for kinds we haven’t yet defined. Can also grab the json for everything and import json/jsonl, manage the cache in the GUI, and so on. The advanced editor in the composer is codemirror, and handles Markdown and Asciidoc. We have the full library on there, with the the full canonical data set from Project Gutenberg, Open Library, and Wikipedia on the relays.

Reminds me, I wanted to add a codemirror handler for Djot. Let me go do that.

Sorry, to bore you. 🤣 I get excited about our own stuff.

I also have an Android app, which has strong feature overlap with the web app. If you prefer native Kotlin to a PWA.

https://zapstore.dev/apps/eu.imwald.android

Amethyst has a special section in relay management for such relays. I forget which one, tho. But it’s enough to just set them as your inboxes.

Another thing I do is let the user choose between Lightning and Monero as the default target, in the Settings. Then, they get the matching target in the drawer, if it is available.

Could open it to any payment target, really, with a drop-down.

Have you tried my thread heatmap algo? It’s very customized, so it’s only as good as your relays are, but it’s interesting to see which threads receive the most interaction.

https://jumble.imwald.eu/spells?spell=heatMap

I guess that’s my 1k zap, for this month.

Thanks for the zap, by the way.

Once we started analyzing who was receiving the zaps, it generally was just the Primal recommended-follows list that nearly everyone onboarded to. And the Fountain Boost Bot.

Nearly everyone else receiving Lightning payments for productive effort were getting them directly, not over zaps. Not least, for privacy reasons. Publishing your wallet transactions on a platform that doesn’t even have persistent deletes is actually sort of crazy.

And there were the zapathons, where npubs would suddenly show up out of the woodwork and collect free money, and then disappear again.

I’ve been watching the numbers for years. Also watching the people who got zapped like crazy, their first day, as someone plucked them out of obscurity… and then they never received a single zap and left again. Or who put in a lot of genuine effort, for months, and never got a single zap (because they weren’t getting promoted by one of the Giant Npubs or Big Clients) and left again. Also watching how many people got sick of watching other people zap millionaires and billionaires and left. Sooo many people were turned off by the zapping, it’s not even funny.

The curated relays are the easiest way to raise the signal, but people are addicted to their follow lists, so they are always stuck looking at the same 5 people and whine in the feeds that there’s nothing better out there.

But, to be clear, @VitorPamplona is right about the amounts spent. With payment targets, people are consciously choosing to send you money and the amount will tend to be significant, but the payments are very few. With zaps, the barrier to sending money is very low, but once people have the zap wallet connected, they just microzap all over the place. So, you can end up with 20 zaps on one note, with none over 100 sats.

How many times have I received 20 zaps on one note? Umm… probably never.

https://xkcd.com/927/

I do. If you click on the coin-emoji button, it opens a drawer that contains jumps to the various targets on your phone (Monero, Lightning, Bitcoin on-chain, USDT, PayPal, BuyMeACoffee, Geyser Fund, whatever).

I used to also include NWC zaps, as the first item and long-press on the button, but I didn’t want the security headache of having to babysit a live connection to a wallet.

Adding it to the about or custom tags is also a good idea, but ineffective because it can’t be integrated into the payment channels.

I got more Monero from my payment targets, in 2 months, than from my zaps in 12 months. It’s not just about the ease or frequency of use. It’s about the amounts tipped.

I know that some people are getting fat zaps, like Jack, but most of us get 1 sat, 21 sats, the rare 1000 sat zap. That’s it. Even when I receive larger Lightning tips or big donations, they’re directly from wallets and not over zaps.

I completely abandoned zapping when I looked at my wallet and it was full of me zapping 420 sats or 4200 sats and people zapping me 2 sats.

No.

I talked to the head of Cake Wallet development, at the last Bitcoin Prague, any wrote the CEO, but nothing came of it.

There are apps containing Monero wallets, tho, like Nosmero. They emit Monero tips and I render them in my UI, but hardly anyone uses them.

Look for kinds 1814 (Garnet client, that Amethyst fork) on wss://nostr.xmr.rocks and kind 9736 (Nosmero web client) on wss://nostr.xmr.rocks.

Me? Idk what that means

I am not a fan of zaps, to be honest. It drew in users that were only here to send 1 sat around in circles all day. Most of them eventually got bored and left, but they drove out any normies that showed up here, before disappearing themselves.

The number of women who arrived and were quickly hounded out because the guys were like, She’s just here to get our money! is honestly quite painful. They tried to do the same with me, and I’m a software engineer. 😵‍💫

I’m a fan of payment targets. They are completely agnostic and don’t even need to use crypto, they are low-key and can be neatly integrated, and they keep payments secondary to content.

You can’t paste it in kind 0?

The cause is more that OpenSats is a Bitcoin fund, so pleasing them is often what the devs focus on.

Would be nice, if a Monero fund like that would support Nostr devs.

In his defense, @VitorPamplona quickly implemented payment targets and kept the spec alive long enough for the rest of us to even notice it. That was a much later idea than the Bitcoin-focused stuff.

It should be a NIP, now, since so many clients support it. Same as publications.

Jesus Christ, stop telling me that I am focusing on narrow maxi dogma, can’t you read my messages?

The many, many nitter users do value freedom and privacy. These are perfect users for nostr. But the nostr ecosystem hasn’t developed a good on-ramp for these users. Instead niche Bitcoin features are plastered all over everyone’s face. “Look how easy it is to set up a Cashu wallet and connect it to your nostr account!’” instead of “here’s how to see good content you want to see easily.”

Monero people and others are here in spite of the bullshit the Bitcoin maxi lot puts forward. They put up with Bitcoin maxi bs because they value freedom and privacy quite a bit more than others do. The Bitcoin maxi lot actively retards the freedom and privacy movement in a lot of ways.

There are tons of Monero and shitcoiners in here too. People who use Twitter in 2026 are normies who don’t value freedom or privacy, they will never switch no matter what.

damn 3 years away is crazy welcome back

https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1442